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Author
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Topic: Evolving Inventions
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Frances
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Member # 169
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posted 28. January 2003 23:35
A while ago Dembski and Bracht wrote papers that discussed TRIZ and its relevance to intelligent design.
Scientific American has an interesting article that may help us explore the designing capabilities of evolutionary processes as compared to intelligent agents.
quote:
Evolution is an immensely powerful creative process. From the intricate biochemistry of individual cells to the elaborate structure of the human brain, it has produced wonders of unimaginable complexity. Evolution achieves these feats with a few simple processes--mutation, sexual recombination and natural selection--which it iterates for many generations. Now computer programmers are harnessing software versions of these same processes to achieve machine intelligence. Called genetic programming, this technique has designed computer programs and electronic circuits that perform specified functions.
Source
My point is that it seems that 'simple' evolutionary processes can be quite creative. How do we intend to differentiate the creative powers of evolutionary processes from intelligent design?
In fact there are some interesting examples that show how evolutionary processes can be quite creative in their solutions to given problems
2002 NASA/DoD Conference on Evolvable Hardware July 15 - 18, 2002 Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Google [ 28. January 2003, 23:40: Message edited by: Frances ]
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John Bracht
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posted 29. January 2003 01:04
Frances,
You've brought up the very topic that my TRIZ paper addresses. Have you actually read it? I think you would find the ideas highly relevant to what you are wanting to discuss here.
TRIZ distinguishes between inventive and routine solutions to problems, and those solutions are distinguished by whether a technical contradiction was overcome or not. I've already debated the topic at length on ARN's website and I don't feel like re-hashing the issues (and I don't really have the time to do so!). The bottom line is that Darwinian processes cannot overcome technical contradictions and hence never generate inventive solutions to problems. However, evolutionary algorithms have tremendous capacity to "sift variants" and squeeze every last drop of possibility from those variants. There are some problems which cannot be solved merely by sifting variants, however (and biological systems include these sorts of inventive changes). Again, I recommend reading that discussion (and my paper) since it will likely address many of the issues you will want to bring up here.
John
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Frances
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posted 29. January 2003 01:41
Dear John
Yes I have read your paper. Have you read the relevant articles to which I was refering?
You suggest that evolutionary algorithms cannot be inventive and yet evolutionary algorithms seems to have been quite creative and inventive in finding solutions to many problems. Often doing better than intelligent designers.
To suggest without much support that there are inventive problems (in biology) which cannot be solved merely by sifting variants seems to be begging the question as well.
I do not believe that your paper really addresses these issues. You for instance reference a program called Biomorph which has fixed number of genes but of course gene duplication would seem to make it possible for the genome to explore solutions beyond its initial 'solution space'. Thus a simple counter example seems to suggest that evolution can explore higher dimension hypervolumes than its original.
Thus when you assert
quote: The essential insight is that trial and error may only operate within a given hypervolume—but it may never jump to a new, higher-order hypervolume. The unbridgeable gaps between hypervolumes correspond to the technical contradictions in TRIZ theory.
You seem to have ignored that evolution can explore such novel approaches as gene duplication which would allow it, per your example, to jump to a higher order hypervolume.
A relevant paper may be Variable-Dimensional Optimization With Evolutionary Algorithms Using Fixed-Length Representations
quote:
The most obvious way to optimize variable dimensional problems with evolutionary algorithms is to use variable length chromosomes for the EA, e.g. [3, 4]. This approach requires the definition of new operators to increase or decrease the length of the internal representation. Following the paradigm of natural evolution, these operators are commonly modeled as gene deletion and gene duplication.
Also the fact that evolution involved developmental controls (Hox genes) suggests additional ways to explore novel parameter space. In fact it may very well be, and the data seem to suggest this, that Hox genes may have played significant roles in the Cambrian explosion.
Genetic Algorithms and Design looks into the innovative capabilities of GAs
COMPUTATIONAL MODELS OF CREATIVE DESIGN: THEORY AND APPLICATIONS
Here
Has some good definitions on various design processes.
Emergence is an important concept in evolutionary processes. See
Creativity, Emergence And Evolution In Design (1992) John S. Gero
Emergent Behaviour In Co-Evolutionary Design (1996)Poon and Maher
EVOLVING DESIGNS BY GENERATING USEFUL COMPLEX GENE STRUCTURES By M. A Rosenman and J. S. Gero
quote:
To achieve this, an evolutionary system which identifies successful combinations of low-level, (basic) genes and combines them into higher-level, (complex) genes is presented. Genes evolve in ever-increasing complexity, thus encoding a higher number of the original basic genes. This results in a continuous restructuring of the search space, allowing potential successful solutions to be found in much shorter search time. This restructuring changes the landscape by changing the probabilities of particular parts of the space being located.
Adaptive Enlargement of State Spaces in Evolutionary Designing
Adaptive Evolutionary Exploration in Creative Design J. S. GERO and V. KAZAKOV
quote:
One of the well-established notions related to creative designing processes is that an important means of characterizing them is to determine whether they have the capacity to expand the state space of possible designs - exploration (Gero, 1994).
[ 29. January 2003, 01:52: Message edited by: Frances ]
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John Bracht
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posted 29. January 2003 02:04
Frances,
Your reply shows again that you haven't really taken the time to read or understand my paper or the ARN discussion of that paper. One of the points that came up on ARN was that evolutionary algorithms can be very good at squeezing every bit of functionality from a given hypervolume of possibilities (i.e, it's very good at sifting variants). We humans do the inventive work by setting up that hypervolume, but the program is good at working within that volume to pull out solutions that we may not be able to come up with directly (usually because they are intractable, see the SELEX example from my paper). So yes, in a sense these programs are "inventive" in an intuitive way. But TRIZ theory gives a definition of "inventive" which is more rigorous: an invention is made when an contradiction is overcome--or, to put the same thing another way, when the boundaries of a hypervolume are shifted such that new solutions are reachable. This means that even a lot of human inventions aren't strictly inventive, and that was one of Altschuller's points--that many patents are issued for trivial, routine solutions that don't qualify as inventions. None of these routine solutions overcome a contradiction (routine solutions are the ones found within a hypervolume, while inventive solutions re-engineer the hypervolume to allow new possibilities).
Frances, I know you have encountered these ideas before. You and I have discussed them. So I'm a little disappointed that you show no more understanding of them than if you had never dealt with them before. If you want to argue for some specific counter-examples, could you please present an evolutionary process that does the work of overcoming a technical contradiction (i.e, it re-engineers the hyperspace of possibilities such that novel solutions can be reached)? Notice you need to do more than say "oh wow, this program looks like it did something inventive!"--You need to show that it actually WAS inventive, by the criteria oulined by TRIZ. That's how we can take this conversation to the next level and make progress. If you want to re-iterate the same, worn-out argument that I've already encountered a thousand times (and answered, in my opinion), I'm not interested.
Seondly, you bring up gene duplication (another issue that gets brought up over and over and over). Here's my response here on ISCID. Again, there's no point in re-hashing it all here until you have taken the time to read and understand and engage the arguments I made--instead of re-stating your original arguments.
I guess I'm a little tired of the fact that you, Frances, make an argument, and I answer it, and you simply re-state the same initial argument as if nothing had happened! In debate, it's called a "lack of clash" and it's a very poor technique. Arguments need to "evolve" with time and move forward, but with you I always feel like I'm standing still. You need to address the replies I give (not re-state your initial argument) so that this discussion can move forward.
John [ 29. January 2003, 02:10: Message edited by: John Bracht ]
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Rex Kerr
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posted 29. January 2003 03:28
John,
Doesn't the whole argument come down to the question of whether it is possible to have slow invention?
Between gene duplication, plasmids, chromosomal duplication, genome duplication (diploid to quadruploid), and so on, there are ample opportunities to alter the dimensionality of the search space. So the limitations of the hypervolume aren't really the issue here--they can easily be overcome.
The real roadblock is the topology of the fitness function on that hypervolume. Specifically, whether an "inventive" solution can be found depends on the ability of the genetic search algorithm to escape the current distribution about the old local fitness maximum and begin to climb the fitness peak that contains the "inventive" solution. If the topology has many ridges, the genetic algorithm will have an easier time of exploring than if the topology consists of gigantic peaks.
It is critical to realize that the topology of performance metrics on conceptual space is not like the topology of fitness metrics on genome space! Thus if (cognitive) "trial and error" typically fails to generate "inventive" solutions to human tasks, it does not follow that random search will fail to generate "inventive" solutions to fitness problems.
Without some inkling of why the two topologies should be similar, I'm not inclined to be too worried about results in TRIZ applying to biological systems. (For example, A&~A is a serious conceptual problem. With genes, a single duplication gives you A+A, and A+~A is not a problem--this has a major impact on the topology.) It is worth keeping in mind, of course--but the bottom line is that it just reinforces the already very-well-known idea that there must be pathways, possibly highly indirect, where each step between adaptive solutions is sufficiently small.
(As another note: traditional population modeling has had a lackluster record in biomathematics, largely because the huge diversity of environments and the interplay between the nature of the environment and populations in that environment are mostly ignored. It is very important, when considering the topology of fitness solutions, to keep this diversity and interplay in mind. If one assumes typical models (identical organisms, static uniform environment), the topology will look radically different--primarily by having greatly accentuated peaks due to a lack of environmental variability. It's important to keep that caveat in mind when evaluating the results of existing computer models of evolution. Hopefully we'll eventually be able to do better here; right now many questions have to be left at "don't know".)
Edited to avoid the phrase "GA algorithm". Genetic algorithm algorithm is rather redundant! [ 29. January 2003, 03:31: Message edited by: Rex Kerr ]
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Janitor@MIT
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posted 29. January 2003 11:42
Please clarify, Frances (for the nth time): The argument is not that intelligent agents can adopt and adapt evolutionary design techniques for search and exploration, optimization and analysis, testing, invention and discovery, filtering, coding, programming, learning, function induction, pattern matching, etc. The argument must be that they cannot do this because it’s not “natural” and is “no different than Darwinism.” But then what did Darwin know about design? Squat. In fact design is always a process in development and evolution (even when its purely serendipitous!).
Darwin probably should have come to some understanding of this, as apparently he never dipped into his legacy to buy lab equipment, but only creatively adapted common household tools to use in his work. But, for purely moral, theological, and philosophical reasons Darwin had already eliminated any role for “intelligence” in any evolutionary process.
All this line of research, which I believe John Gero has pursued for >20 years, indicates is that “intelligence” is indispensable in understanding it.
To whom or what am I to attribute the “creativity” here—since there is always a designer involved? Seems to me that the designer does here what designers do always by whatever effective methods they have available to them. Did Picasso’s creativity reside exclusively in the canvas, paint, and brush?
Bit of a false dichotomy being implied here, evolution or design, that maybe should be more thoroughly explored.
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yersinia
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posted 29. January 2003 20:50
John Bracht writes,
quote:
The bottom line is that Darwinian processes cannot overcome technical contradictions and hence never generate inventive solutions to problems.
I submit that PCP degradation is a counter-example.
Starting point: pathway that cannot degrade Pentachlorophenol (PCP) because PCP and partially-broke-down chemical intermediates are toxic.
Evolutionary invention: Cooption of pcpC-ancestor from a different original function, insertion into preexisting pathway. PcpC happens to break down above toxic intermediate.
Ending point: Pathway that can degrade toxic PCP.
Result: a multiple-parts required solution, and (emphatically) a solution that did not come about by gradual optimization ("routine improvement") of preexisting system, rather addition of a novel part with a different original function.
Reference: quote:
Trends Biochem Sci 2000 Jun;25(6):261-5 Evolution of a metabolic pathway for degradation of a toxic xenobiotic: the patchwork approach.
Copley SD.
The pathway for degradation of the xenobiotic pesticide pentachlorophenol in Sphingomonas chlorophenolica probably evolved in the past few decades by the recruitment of enzymes from two other catabolic pathways. The first and third enzymes in the pathway, pentachlorophenol hydroxylase and 2,6-dichlorohydroquinone dioxygenase, may have originated from enzymes in a pathway for degradation of a naturally occurring chlorinated phenol. The second enzyme, a reductive dehalogenase, may have evolved from a maleylacetoacetate isomerase normally involved in degradation of tyrosine. This apparently recently assembled pathway does not function very well: pentachlorophenol hydroxylase is quite slow, and tetrachlorohydroquinone dehalogenase is subject to severe substrate inhibition.
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John Bracht
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posted 30. January 2003 02:15
Yersinia,
(By the way, are you aware (I'm sure you are) that the word that usually comes right after your name is pestis (the organism responsible for Boubonic plague)? I know you don't really want to be known as a pest, but every time I read your name my mind fills in the next word and thats the unconscious association that comes to mind. sorry.)
On to your example. Both PCP degradation (which you described quite nicely) and other variants such as nylon-digesting bacteria are excellent examples of the power of Darwinian processes to search out the nooks and crannies of functionality of a given hyperspace of possibility. Both PCP degradation and nylon digestion are accessible by simple variation from a pre-existing starting point, namely the genes that were mutated to give rise to the PCP resistance or nylon digestion cabapilities respectively. In terms of sequence space both the "solutions" were quite close to the starting position (even though in terms of function they are drastically different). Mutations just had to "step over" to the solution by a simple point mutation (in the PCP example, there is cross-reactivity between the mutated pcpC enzyme and its original substrate, so likely the enzyme hasn't really changed that much). The only point of I have disagreement with your account is that you want to argue it's a "multi-part solution"--in reality, it's a single part that got added to a pre-existing pathway to impart novel functionality. And that single added part wasn't really changed that much (though once basic function was achieved, the whole pathway could be optimized by further "tweaking" to find the fitness peak). In all, it's a routine solution to a routine problem--there is nothing inventive about the solution (again, if you disagree, please demonstrate, using the TRIZ definition of inventiveness, to show how this was an inventive solution).
Inventive solutions always involve changing the very parameters of the evolving system. In other words, inventive solutions alter something that is fundamental to the evolutionary process itself (and hence is not accessible for evolution to alter). In the biomorphs example, the addition of a new "gene" with the novel function of coding for color was a prime example. This also explains where Rex makes a mistake--by assuming that gene duplication allows for inventive solutions to be found. What if Dawkins had just duplicated the gene for, say, branching depth? Or some other gene? He would just get a duplicate gene that would be activated at the same time as the "parent" gene and would do exactly the same thing as the "parent" gene (hopefully it wouldn't cause a syntax error or crash the program). There is a pre-defined set of "rules" that determine how the genes are interpreted by the program--and that system had to be altered by adding in the code that reads the "color" gene and interprets it properly as a color on the screen. Once the code is in place to read the "color" gene, that portion of code isn't "mutated" any more, but is used to interpret the parts that do evolve--the actual value of the color gene. Indeed, if the wrong portion of code is mutated (like the "rules" that outline how genes are interpreted), chaos would result as the program breaks down.
In my previous discussion of my paper, I said
quote:
...the process of embryonic development is a set of basic parameters which define the hypervolume in which the organism resides. Mutations to the genome serve to move about within that hypervolume (by their effect, "filtered" through development), but they do nothing to alter the fixed paramters of embryonic development in which the organism resides. (Notice I'm not saying that no mutations ever affect embryonic development; surely some mutations cause it to go badly awry or to terminate early, etc. But these do not alter the hypervolume that the organism exists in; they only mess up what is already established.)
Gene regulation is another factor in establishing a hypervolume of possibilities. Does a particular gene mutation kill the organism or create a favorable mutant? It depends on how it impacts embryonic development and also the expression of other genes. It is the logical interrelationship of genes that determines what changes are viable and hence selectable. Perhaps we can envision the process of embryological development as the interactions of genes through time: a program of certain interactions that give rise to a certain type of organism.
[from: http://www.iscid.org/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000128 ]
So the origin of developmental programs should correspond to an inventive change in biology. It's where the "rules" came into existence (or were re-defined from what previously existed). Part of the problem for an evolutionary account is that there is no way to have a half-set of rules that govern something like embryonic development. The whole thing is deeply teleological; the entire process points toward an end goal: a functioning, viable adult organism. Thus, the entire system (the ontogenetic program) must be present before any sort of adult body (upon which selection can operate) comes into existence. So you have to have the whole, complete network present before the system operates (you can't have loose ends "dangling" and still get a viable organism). For instance, it makes no sense to have Hox genes if you don't have downstream gene batteries that they can eventually activate to produce muscle, nerves, etc. And it makes no sense to set up gradients of morphogens which will become further refined if you don't have the genes to carry out the actual refining process of differentiation. Obviously, a network that is truncated at the top will not be operational either (imagine Hox genes coupled with downstream gene batteries but no upstream activating signal).
You can see how mutating certain key genes would simply destroy the developmental process (not allow a viable organism to be produced), much like Dawkin's biomorph program would be destroyed by mutations in the rules for interpreting the "genes" in the program. Because many mutations simply destroy the ability to produce a viable organism, these mutations are effectively ruled out (they get weeded out of the gene pool by natural selection). There is a huge "excluded class" of mutations. In other words, the "rules of development" define the boundaries of the possibility space that can be explored by a given evolutionary process (operating upon a given pre-existing developmental process). The developmental process pre-determines all the possibilities that can ever evolve for that given system. It does so by simply defining what mutations are "allowed" in the sense that they give rise to a viable organism. Since the developmental process consists of a complex system of interacting genes, small changes cannot re-wire the entire system or produce the system de-novo. This is why I argue that fundamentally, the developmental process is fixed, and defines the "space" of possibilities which can be expored by the evolutionary process (which is more or less parasitic upon the underlying, teleological process that sets up the developmental system in the first place).
Furthermore, how would one make major alterations in such a gene network, once it is established? Imagine again the Dawkin's angel wings example. How do we sprout angel wings from the back of a person? Surely it is not enough to merely duplicate the genes for differentiation of muscle, bone, nerves, etc. We also need to "wire" these new genes into the existing network in such a way that the whole thing makes the new structure. Again, there's no way to "halfway" wire these genes together and there's no way to account for such a transition that isn't deeply teleological (goal-oriented).
The inventive change would be adding angel wings. It requires fundamental re-working of the gene regulatory network (the ontogenetic network) in such a way as to produce a new structure. But once that structure is in place, "tweaking" can occur as the wing can evolve to be longer, shorter, etc. These are "routine" and non-inventive changes.
Rex is right that one fundamental reason that the Darwinian process can't produce these sorts of changes are because the changes needed tend to be very large. But another reason is that inventiveness alters the parameters within which evolution itself happens. Evolution simply cannot do the teleological work of re-wiring the system, so it must can only tweak the existing system (producing variants of what already exists). Not only is evolution incapable of making sudden leaps, but the leaps it would need to make involve a high degree of teleology (as described above). The intelligent agent can see the end goal and bring many disparate components together into a novel system which can then "evolve," but the process of "evolving" can never bring into being the system itself.
John [ 30. January 2003, 02:51: Message edited by: John Bracht ]
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yersinia
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posted 30. January 2003 06:17
Who says I have to be Y. pestis (aka bubonic plague, which they apparently lost a bit of from a lab in Texas)? There are other kinds of Yersinia...
Before I attempt to answer your question, John, I would like to try and narrow down the exact, final, definitive definition of "inventive solution" in TRIZ-terms. The best I can seem to find are terms like "non-routine" and "resolving a technical contradiction", which help a bit but are difficult to apply.
Is there perhaps an authoritative quote you could post that would constitute the best-available definition?
Perhaps (especially since you focused on morphological evolution in your reply) answering the following would help:
Regarding morphology/development, would the following set of stages, if evolved through, constitute an "inventive" or "routine" solution:
1) Start with segmented metazoan.
2) Duplicate a segment (e.g. the corresponding Hox gene is serially duplicated). Critter now has an extra segment somewhere in the middle (say, 5 instead of 4) and corresponding pair of legs, etc., that go with the segment.
3) Repeat step 2 a number of times (e.g., selection for larger body size retains these duplications)
4) Once there are a fair number of segments, mutation and selection modify one or several of the more forward pairs, e.g. to improve prey capture or food-chewing or substrate/mate clasping (large number of possibilities here, lots of arthropods have these kinds of specializations).
Below is a slightly less abstract case (in arthropods, but dealing with the origin of a novel structure not from legs but from another structure). Would we have a novel or routine kind of solution here?
quote:
Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 2002 Apr 16;99(8):5498-502
[which is free online I think]
Origin of a complex key innovation in an obligate insect-plant mutualism.
Pellmyr O, Krenn HW.
Evolutionary key innovations give organisms access to new ecological resources and cause rapid, sometimes spectacular adaptive radiation. The well known obligate pollination mutualism between yuccas and yucca moths is a major model system for studies of coevolution, and it relies on the key innovation in the moths of complex tentacles used for pollen collecting and active pollination. These structures lack apparent homology in other insects, making them a rare example of a novel limb. We performed anatomical and behavioral studies to determine their origin and found evidence of a remarkably simple mechanism. Morphological analyses of the tentacles and adjacent mouthparts in pollinators and closely related taxa showed that the tentacle appears abruptly in female pollinating yucca moths. Several morphological synapomorphies between the galeae, which constitute the characteristic lepidopteran proboscis, and the tentacle suggest that the tentacle evolved quickly through expression of the genetic template for the galea at an apical growth bud on the first segment of the maxillary palp. Behavioral data indicate that tentacle and proboscis movements are controlled by a shared hydraulic extension mechanism, thus no new mechanism was needed for tentacle function. Known developmental paths from other insects can explain the origin of this sex-specific key innovation in a few steps.
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charlie d.
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posted 30. January 2003 07:43
So, John, in your scheme of how developmental innovations can (actually, cannot) arise, how would you interpret the multiple re-evolution of wings in stick insects, and what it is possibly telling us about the first appearance of wings in insects? [I assume you agree the original appearance of wings in insects is as dramatic a developmental novelty as they come.]
I think therein lies the key to the (apparent) conundrum of bauplan novelty you describe (that is, what good a partial developmental pathway is). Ironically, I think it is very close in logic to the evolution of the PCP degradation pathway you just dismissed as trivial.
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Rex Kerr
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posted 31. January 2003 03:14
I won't quote the stuff about Hox genes, but the genes tend to be orthologous. That is, it looks like they were duplicated. Surely, John, you can imagine a use for a pair of genes in a simple organism, and then more and more in organisms with increasing complexity?
Or note that the mouse genome was apparently duplicated twice since its common ancestor with Drosophila. It seems to make good use of its extra Hox genes, especially in patterning the nervous system. This seems to suggest that it isn't so useless to simultaneously extend the rules and the players, or however you want to divide things up.
quote: You can see how mutating certain key genes would simply destroy the developmental process...Since the developmental process consists of a complex system of interacting genes, small changes cannot re-wire the entire system or produce the system de-novo. This is why I argue that fundamentally, the developmental process is fixed
This is a sensible conclusion, with the small drawback that it is wrong. Specifically, organisms can survive with mutations in certain key genes, as long as the impact isn't too drastic.
For example, the polarity gene pod-1, that used to be studied in a lab near the one I work at, plays a critical role in establishing polarity in the first cell division in C. elegans development. If anything is going to destroy the development, you'd expect that altering a gene that was responsible for creating a distinction between anterior and posterior to do it!
Yet if you inhibit the function of the gene with RNAi, despite a reduction in function of the gene, worms can sometimes survive (albeit sometimes somewhat messed up). Likewise with the cold-sensitive pod mutants; the severity of the phenotype gets increasingly bad with colder temperatures.
You can't re-wire the entire system or produce it de novo, but mutations to developmental processes are not necessarily fatal.
Fundamentally, the developmental process is not fixed, just resistant to change.
quote: Furthermore, how would one make major alterations in such a gene network, once it is established?
Step by step. Lack of ability to see a step by step solution doesn't constitute the lack of said solution. The PCB and moth-mouthpart examples are nice examples of how a large functional change may take fewer steps than one might envision.
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yersinia
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posted 31. January 2003 05:14
quote:
So the origin of developmental programs should correspond to an inventive change in biology. It's where the "rules" came into existence (or were re-defined from what previously existed). Part of the problem for an evolutionary account is that there is no way to have a half-set of rules that govern something like embryonic development. The whole thing is deeply teleological; the entire process points toward an end goal: a functioning, viable adult organism.
Ah, the old "what good is half a developmental pathway" question.
My recommendation would be to ask a sponge, they've got a just couple of hox genes but seem to be doing just fine...
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gedanken
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posted 31. January 2003 10:40
John Bracht,
I have not read any the TRIZ papers recently, nor the ARN discussion, and for that I apologize. But I still have some questions. You said:
quote: One of the points that came up on ARN was that evolutionary algorithms can be very good at squeezing every bit of functionality from a given hypervolume of possibilities (i.e, it's very good at sifting variants). We humans do the inventive work by setting up that hypervolume, but the program is good at working within that volume to pull out solutions that we may not be able to come up with directly (usually because they are intractable, see the SELEX example from my paper). So yes, in a sense these programs are "inventive" in an intuitive way. But TRIZ theory gives a definition of "inventive" which is more rigorous: an invention is made when an contradiction is overcome--or, to put the same thing another way, when the boundaries of a hypervolume are shifted such that new solutions are reachable. This means that even a lot of human inventions aren't strictly inventive, and that was one of Altschuller's points--that many patents are issued for trivial, routine solutions that don't qualify as inventions. None of these routine solutions overcome a contradiction (routine solutions are the ones found within a hypervolume, while inventive solutions re-engineer the hypervolume to allow new possibilities).
So now consider a problem:
We have a field programmable gate array. The essence of an FPGA is that it consists of a pool of logic elements, and a connectionist architecture between them. In essence we could consider the modern FPGAs to allow for an almost infinite range of connections given the limit of how many cells are present in the FPGA. (In essence the latest generations have few limitations on what one could construct, as long as it can be realized as a pattern of the basic logic elements of logic functions of N variables and flip flop state storage elements. The limitation of a given FPGA is for the most part the number of cells in that FPGA.)
So now establish a GA that is going to search the hypervolume of all connections of logic elements and storage elements of the FPGA. What we note here is that neither the human, nor the GA algorithm, is capable of expanding upon this hypervolume and still work with the existing FPGA.
We set up a simple goal, a circuit that will produce a certain desired result -- and that desired result is coded as a “goal” function.
I don’t think that we will disagree that the hypervolume of all general logic solutions within the number of cells will be efficiently searched for solutions that meet the goal.
Now the first question:
So therefore the creative information must all exist in the following simple aspects:
- Basics of logic elements (generic logic functions, storate elements of flip flops)
- Concept of arbitrary connections thereto
- Specified goal
The implication of your paragraph above is that all human solutions to using the FPGA to meet the specified problem, using logic element connections, “aren't strictly inventive”. All the possible inventions that solve the problem are already embodied in simply the statements “use logic of less than N cells” and the problem specification -- and thus the “inventivity” is essentially contained in specifying the problem. Is this your position? = Second version:
Change the limits on the GA program. Now instead of searching a particular FPGA, we allow generic logic elements. These are the same basic logic elements (AND, OR, XOR, etc., all logic functions of a few variables), and storage elemenets. We don’t implement the actual FPGA, rather we simulate the given logic function, albeit more slowly, in the computer algorithm memory. And the logic functions and cells now have no limits as there were some limits or constraints in the FPGA.
The major change is that we don’t set an upper limit on the number of logic elements to be used. Therefore the ”hypervolume” of possible solutions does not have a fixed dimension. The dimensionality can be bumped at any moment by the program to explore another level. So by this set of constraints, the search space is infinite. (It is only limited by the memory of the computer -- and that is so large that time limits will swamp space problems making it essentially “unlimited” in dimensionality for practical purposes.)
One significant difference is that neither the human, nor the GA, can search the entire infinite hypervolume of ever increasing dimensionality. So the GA can’t “efficiently” search this space, it can simply probe the space with a finite number of trials.
So now with the “hypervolume” specified as essentially infinite -- what are the answers to the first question?
The implication of your paragraph above may still be that all human solutions to using general digital logic to meet the specified problem, using logic element connections, “aren't strictly inventive”. All the possible inventions that solve the problem are already embodied in simply the statements “use logic elements” and the problem specification -- and thus the “inventivity” is essentially contained in specifying the problem. Is this your position? [ 31. January 2003, 11:22: Message edited by: gedanken ]
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Nel
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posted 31. January 2003 21:40
Hi Rex,
You said:
Yet if you inhibit the function of the gene with RNAi, despite a reduction in function of the gene, worms can sometimes survive (albeit sometimes somewhat messed up). Likewise with the cold-sensitive pod mutants; the severity of the phenotype gets increasingly bad with colder temperatures.
I was wondering if you can reference where function of pod-1 was reduced but still yielded a viable organism. [ 31. January 2003, 21:59: Message edited by: Nelson_Alonso ]
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Nel
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posted 31. January 2003 21:57
Charlie: So, John, in your scheme of how developmental innovations can (actually, cannot) arise, how would you interpret the multiple re-evolution of wings in stick insects, and what it is possibly telling us about the first appearance of wings in insects? [I assume you agree the original appearance of wings in insects is as dramatic a developmental novelty as they come.]
Nelson: As I stated elsewhere, the case with the stick insects may not be "re-evolution", but simply the turning on/off of wing instructions.
quote:
Whiting says, however, that while wing re-evolution may seem unlikely to insect researchers, the basic idea of switching regulatory genes off and on is well accepted. Even a single gene can sometimes switch on the growth of a complex structure - studies indicate that a master gene called Pax-6, for example, might control the development of eyes in all creatures that have them. http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993269
If this is the case, mutations wouldn't completely mess up the genes for wings, in which case this fly would have to re-evolve wings. But if it is just a genetic switch that was responsible, then it clearly isn't a case of re-evolution. [ 31. January 2003, 21:58: Message edited by: Nelson_Alonso ]
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