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Author Topic: Ontogenetic Depth and the Origin of Animals
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Icon 4 posted 05. February 2003 20:07      Profile for Moderator   Email Moderator   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Please join ISCID and Paul Nelson for the live chat at 9pm Eastern. Below is the link to a discussion paper that Dr. Nelson has submitted to help spur discussion.

http://www.iscid.org/nelsonchat.pdf

Here is the link to the chat:
http://www.iscid.org/paul-nelson-chat.php

[ 18. May 2003, 20:52: Message edited by: Moderator ]

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Frances
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Icon 1 posted 06. February 2003 00:35      Profile for Frances     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Sounds cool to me. I am looking forward to examples in which the ontogenetic depth has been applied to known Cambrian organisms. With the rcent finds of (tentative) pre-cambrian embryos it may be interesting to establish the historical evolution of these measures.
Some of the questions I would like to see addressed is how the ontogenetic depth measurements relate to evolution versus intelligent design. Does Paul propose an intelligent intervention in the Cambrian? There are some very interesting questions that need to be addressed especially given the 'recent' finds in the pre-cambrian layers as well as our increased understanding of homeoboxes, and gene duplication.
Let me propose a simple model for morphological change during the developmental cycle, nothing new here. A small increase or decrease in time to develop a particular limb can have significant morphological impacts on the organism.
In one of your earlier papers with Meyers et al you mentioned bicoid as an example. Do you still consider bicoid to be an example?

I would like to finish with a thought for discussion

quote:

The genes controlling the early events in the development of Drosophila can be classified into three broad categories: Gap genes are a set of genes that act to define broad regions of the early embryo; these can regulate the expression and action of Pair rule genes which further define the broad regions into more numerous segments; the pair rule genes can affect the expression and action of Segment polarity genes which will determine the fate of certain structure within each segment. As with the gradients of morphogens described above, one can envision mutations that alter the interactions between these broad classes of genes controlling the developmental fate of parts of the organism which, if established in the population, could lead to the evolution of new morphological "plans" (.g., a new Bauplan).

There is good evidence for such a supposition in another very important set of genes: the homeotic genes. Certain mutations in these genes result in homeotic mutations where one body part is transformed into the structure of another body part. The best examples are the Antennapedia complex and the Bithorax complex which are large regions of the chromosome containing several genes each. The positions of the genes on the chromosome have a remarkable correlation with the segment of the body in which they are active! (see figures below). The genes contain a region of DNA that codes for a highly conserved stretch of amino acids, known as the homeobox that generally are involved in the determination of body segments (but bicoid has a homeobox and it is more involved with anterior-posterior determination). While mutations that move a leg to the position of an antenna (in the Antennapedia complex) or transforms the balancing organs (halteres) into a pair of wings (in the Bithorax complex) is of dubious fitness value to the organism, it does show that modifications of the general body plan be achieved by mutations in one or a few genes, i.e., there is genetic evidence that Hopeful (hopeless?) Monsters could be produced.

These phenomena are compelling in light of the belief that arthropods (insects, crustaceans, etc.) evolved from annelids (segmented worms; see figure below). One can envision that sequential modification of body segments, through mutations such as those described above, might allow for the evolution of insects from a worm-like ancestor. Suggestive of this is the observation that when the Antennapedia complex and the Bithorax complex are mutated the larval stage of the fruit fly is transformed into a larva with many thoracic segments rather than the wild-type pattern of differentiation into maxillary, labial and abdominal segments (see fig.below). This "throw back" to the ancestral form (i.e., the middle segments of worms are relatively undifferentiated) is called an atavism.


Source

Looking forward to the chat.

Some additional links

Waddington’s canalization revisited: Developmental
stability and evolution


quote:

Most species maintain abundant genetic variation and experience a range of environmental conditions, yet phenotypic variation is low. That is, development is robust to changes in genotype and environment. It has been claimed that this robustness, termed canalization, evolves because of long-term natural selection for optimal phenotypes. We show that the developmental process, here modeled as a network of interacting transcriptional regulators, constrains the genetic system to produce canalization, even
without selection toward an optimum. The extent of canalization, measured as the insensitivity to mutation of a network’s equilibrium state, depends on the complexity of the network, such that more highly connected networks evolve to be more canalized.
We argue that canalization may be an inevitable consequence of complex developmental–genetic processes and thus requires no explanation in terms of evolution to suppress phenotypic
variation.

Computational geneticists revisit a mystery in evolution

quote:

Scientists used to think that developmental fidelity evolved via natural selection, principally through survival and reproduction of organisms with redundant genetic systems -- that is, ones with copies of important gene sequences. But Siegal and Bergman's results indicate that redundancy may only be one small manifestation of a bigger theme: the complexity of gene networks. In short, more complex systems are more resistant to change in their outputs.

"It is typically assumed that important properties of organisms are crafted by natural selection," says Dmitri Petrov, assistant professor of biological sciences. "What Siegal and Bergman show is that robustness in the face of mutation, or canalization, may be a byproduct of complexity itself and therefore that robustness may be only very indirectly a product of natural selection."

Complex simplicity

Phenotypic and dynamical transitions in model genetic networks II. Application to the evolution of segmentation mechanisms

quote:
Here we compare mechanisms of segmentation in different organisms and discuss how the transition between the different types of segmentation can be explained by small and progressive changes in the underlying gene networks.
Companion paper: Phenotypic and dynamical transitions in model genetic networks I: Emergence of patterns and genotype-phenotype relationships

And particularly interesting

Ricard V. Solé, Isaac Salazar-Ciudad and Jordi García-Fernandez Landscapes, Gene Networks and Pattern Formation: on the Cambrian Explosion

The molecular evolution of development

quote:

Summary
Morphological differences between species, from simple single-character differences to large-scale variation in body plans, can be traced to changes in the timing and location of developmental events. This has led to a growing interest in understanding the genetic basis behind the evolution of developmental systems.
Molecular evolutionary genetics provides one of several approaches to dissecting the evolution of developmental systems, by allowing us to reconstruct the history of developmental genetic pathways, infer the origin and diversification of developmental gene functions, and assess the relative contributions of various evolutionary
forces in shaping regulatory gene evolution. BioEssays20:700–711, 1998. r 1998 John Wiley & Sons, Inc.



[ 06. February 2003, 01:17: Message edited by: Frances ]

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Icon 1 posted 06. February 2003 11:27      Profile for Moderator   Email Moderator   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The chat transcript is available:

http://www.iscid.org/paul-nelson-chat.php

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Frances
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Icon 1 posted 06. February 2003 12:26      Profile for Frances     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Oops I thought the talk was today.
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Rex Kerr
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Icon 1 posted 06. February 2003 20:50      Profile for Rex Kerr     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I couldn't make the talk yesterday, but I would like to point out in reference to the C. elegans cell lineage section of Nelson's paper that we soon will be in an amazingly powerful position to analyze the molecular changes underlying alternative developmental fates.

There are a number of nematode species related to C. elegans (C. briggsae, for instance), and these do not have identical cell lineage patterns. By characterizing both the genes required for the lineage (as has already been done in considerable detail for certain lineages in C. elegans) and completely sequencing the genome of the other worms, and swapping genes between the organisms, we have the prospect of being able to understand just what it takes to alter developmental pathways.

It will be very exciting and instructive research, I think, but is a few years off.

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Frances
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Icon 1 posted 07. February 2003 01:06      Profile for Frances     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul Nelson
quote:

In the sea urchin genus Heliocidaris, two modes of development are present.

One species goes through a pluteus (free-living) larval stage. The other, however, develops directly into the adult. These ontogenies are remarkably different from each other, yet the adult sea urchins are more or less indistinguishable.

Check out the paper "Single-Copy DNA Distance between Two Congeneric Sea Urchin Species Exhibiting Radically Different Modes of Development’ Smith, Boom, and Raff"

An interesting quote may help understand some of the details:

quote:

A continuum of modifications of the pluteus has evolved, ranging from obligately feeding pluteus to loss of all larval features. These modifications include facultative planktotrophy (Emlet 1986), nonfeeding plutei (Okazaki 1975; Olsen et al., accepted), armless nonfeeding larvae

Seems that there may be a 'gradual' change after all possible.

and

quote:

The present study demonstrates that radical changes in development, oogenesis, and spermatogenesis can occur in relatively brief spans of evolutionary time. A thorough comparative analysis of the coding sequences in nuclear DNA of these species would probably display little difference. The kinds of differences that result between these species more likely arise from patterns of control and timing of expression of specific gene sets.

Does this mean another intervention by an intelligent designer? Or is the Cambrian the only instance?

...more later...

See also "A novel ontogenetic pathway in hybrid embryos between species with different modes of development" by Elizabeth C. Raff, Ellen M. Popodi, Belinda J. Sly, F. Rudolf Turner, Jeffrey T. Villinski and Rudolf A. Raff

quote:

To investigate the bases for evolutionary changes in developmental mode, we fertilized eggs of a direct developing sea urchin, Heliocidaris erythrogramma, with sperm from a closely related species, H. tuberculata, that undergoes indirect development via a feeding larva. The resulting hybrids completed development to form juvenile
adult sea urchins. Hybrids exhibited restoration of feeding larval structures and paternal gene expression that have been lost in the evolution of the direct-developing maternal species. However, the developmental outcome of the hybrids was not a simple reversion to the paternal pluteus
larval form. An unexpected result was that the ontogeny of the hybrids was distinct from either parental species. Early hybrid larvae exhibited a novel morphology similar to that of the dipleurula-type larva typical of other classes of
echinoderms and considered to represent the ancestral echinoderm larval form. In the hybrid developmental program, therefore, both recent and ancient ancestral features were restored. That is, the hybrids exhibited features of the pluteus larval form that is present in both the paternal species and in the immediate common ancestor
of the two species, but they also exhibited general developmental features of very distantly related echinoderms. Thus in the hybrids, the interaction of two genomes that normally encode two disparate developmental modes produces a novel but harmonious ontongeny.

Francoise Huang proposes an interesting viewpoint in "Syntagms in development and evolution". By focusing on small sets of genes which control discrete developmental steps Huang concludes that:

quote:

Conclusion
We presently view development as a concatenation of discrete operations, each of which results from the action of a small set of interacting genes called a syntagm. The operations themselves
are largely invariant, due to the high inertia of the underlying syntagms. The connections between operations, however, are more flexible since changes at this level do not impair the workings
of each operation but rather create more possibilities and serve as a source of species diversity. Thus we expect evolution to be
essentially as discontinuous as the developmental program itself. Major aspects of the evolutionary process, such as its saltatory nature and the highly discontinuous morphologies of the major
phyla, are consistent with this view.
The idea that evolution and the creation of new forms stem from within and not from without, and that the changes reflect a continuous reassortment of existing, highly invariant operations, makes it necessary to reconsider the belief that natural selection and adaptation is the driving force for species diversity. Darwin himself was well aware that the driving force of evolution was variation: "...[Natural selection] implies only the preservation of such variations
as arise and are beneficial to the being under its conditions of life..." (Darwin, 1859). What we have now discovered is that the syntagmatic structure of the developmental program imposes
strong constraints on the type of variation that can arise and be viable.

A good review article "REVIEW ARTICLE
Specification of cell fate in the sea urchin embryo: summary and some proposed mechanisms" by Eric H. Davidson*, R. Andrew Cameron and Andrew Ransick

and

Apextrin, a Novel Extracellular Protein Associated
with Larval Ectoderm Evolution in Heliocidaris erythrogramma by Eric S. Haag, Belinda J. Sly, Mary E. Andrews, and Rudolf A. Raff

[ 07. February 2003, 02:06: Message edited by: Frances ]

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Icon 1 posted 07. February 2003 07:28      Profile for Moderator   Email Moderator   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frances,
Let me remind you that literature and quote bombing are frowned upon at Brainstorms.

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Paul A. Nelson
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Icon 1 posted 07. February 2003 09:00      Profile for Paul A. Nelson   Email Paul A. Nelson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rex and Frances,

Thanks for the citations. Nematodes (as a group) are fascinating because many species do not exhibit a canonical cell lineage pattern, as does C. elegans (see Marie-Anne Felix, "Evolution of Developmental Mechanisms in Nematodes," Journal of Experimental Zoology 285 [1999]:3-18).

Frances, in all experiments with Heliocidaris thus far, induced major modifications to the sea urchin's developmental patterns are not heritable (see, e.g., Elizabeth C. Raff et al., "A novel ontogenetic pathway in hybrid embryos between species with different modes of development," Development 126 [1999]:1937-1945). And evolutionary change cannot occur if variation is not heritable.

A couple of years ago, I presented a poster at an evo-devo conference at the University of Chicago, and Rudy Raff was one of the plenary speakers. He described his Heliocidaris hybridizations (between indirect- and direct-developers). Someone in the audience asked him (1) how long the hybrids lived, and (2) if they left fertile offpsring. The answers were (1) about one month, tops, and (2) no.

[ 07. February 2003, 09:23: Message edited by: Paul A. Nelson ]

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charlie d.
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Icon 1 posted 07. February 2003 10:03      Profile for charlie d.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Paul:
If the purpose is to understand the most basic issue of multicellular organism development, ie the differentiation of germ and somatic cell lineages and its evolution (which seems to me is where the entire issue of "ontogenetic depth" boils down to), I think to pick up the story at the nematode or echinoderm stage is to miss way too many of the beginning chapters.

If I were you, I'd start from this guy:
 -

[ 07. February 2003, 10:06: Message edited by: charlie d. ]

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Paul A. Nelson
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Icon 1 posted 07. February 2003 10:27      Profile for Paul A. Nelson   Email Paul A. Nelson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hey -- nice clip of Volvox!

But elaborate, please. Do you think Volvox is a good model for the origin of metazoan differentiation?

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charlie d.
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Icon 1 posted 07. February 2003 11:16      Profile for charlie d.     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
No, of course not, since it's not a metazoan.
However, as I said Volvox is probably the best model for understanding the kind of mechanisms that can lead to differentiation of germ line and soma. Volvox embryos need several rounds of cell division to complete the germ/somatic cell differentiation program, and more to become a mature, reproducing individual. Isn't that what "ontogenetic depth" is all about?

As far as "ontogenetic depth" is concerned, the crucial problem according to your paper is the delay and requirement for coordinated differentiation between the formation of a new individual and its reproductive maturity. This is certainly true in volvox. It seems to me if you understand how volvox's ancestors could manage to sacrifice the rapid reproduction rate of a unicellular organism for the eventual "delayed gratification" of cellular specialization, you have answered the first (and I think the crucial) question regarding "ontogenetic depth".

In other words, as far as marching bands go, Volvox sure isn't able to spell "Cal State", but it definitely can do something like this:
 -
which still displays the "marching band problem" core issue of organization and synchronization.

I guess my main point is that there are probably hundreds of biological solutions between unicellularity and a multicellular-multilineage organism, ranging from bacterial quorum sensing, to biofilms, to colonial ciliates, to dictyostelium, to volvox, to sponges etc etc. Somewhere in there is where the answer to the evolution of "ontogenetic depth" ultimately lies, not in drosophilas and nematodes.

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Paul A. Nelson
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Icon 1 posted 07. February 2003 11:33      Profile for Paul A. Nelson   Email Paul A. Nelson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Charlie,

You wrote:

quote:
I guess my main point is that there are probably hundreds of biological solutions between unicellularity and a multicellular-multilineage organism, ranging from bacterial quorum sensing, to biofilms, to colonial ciliates, to dictyostelium, to volvox, to sponges etc etc. Somewhere in there is where the answer to the evolution of "ontogenetic depth" ultimately lies, not in drosophilas and nematodes.
Point taken. The Carl Schlichting article ("Origins of differentiation via phenotypic plasticity," Evolution & Development 5 [2003]:98-105), cited in my informal discussion paper, takes a similar line. Marcus Ross and I will consider evolutionary ideas that try to come to grips with the origin of ontogenetic depth in our long SDB paper, which I hope we can post here, as an ISCID pre-print, in late March. Incidentally, I hope to spend some time with Professor Schlichting when I speak at the University of Connecticut later this month (2/18).

[ 07. February 2003, 11:56: Message edited by: Paul A. Nelson ]

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Frances
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Icon 1 posted 07. February 2003 11:59      Profile for Frances     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Moderator:I apologize for the 'quote' bombing, I intend(ed) to provide for some discussion materials related to some of the claims made by Paul.

Paul,

While heritability is important, I believe the experiment showed how the developmental networks are far more open to change than perhaps implied in your paper.

As Raff et al report "Although no crosses between species with differing developmental modes have been reported, the results with cross species hybrids among indirect-developers suggested
that, if they could be made, hybrids between a derived directdeveloping species and an indirect-developing species would have the potential to reveal the nature of genes whose expression has been lost or altered in the derived species, by
restoration of their expression in the hybrids."

While the hybrids may not have been viable by themselves they show that novel developmental changes are not beyond reach of the genome.

[ 07. February 2003, 13:04: Message edited by: Frances ]

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Paul A. Nelson
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Icon 1 posted 07. February 2003 13:14      Profile for Paul A. Nelson   Email Paul A. Nelson   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Frances,

I think your quote from Raff must be from an earlier paper. Hybrids between direct- and indirect-developers have been made (see, e.g., Mark G. Nielsen et al., "Novel gene expression patterns in hybrid embryos between species with different modes of development," Evolution & Development 2 [2000]:133-144). The important question is what do those hybrids signify?

Nielsen et al. write, "We are not suggesting that this kind of hybridization plays a large role in evolution" (p. 143), but continue that their experiments show "that large genomic changes can be introduced into developing systems, and nonetheless be integrated into a novel ontogeny." This is, I think, the point that you're also making, when you say:

quote:
While heritability is important, I believe the experiment showed how the developmental networks are far more open to change than perhaps implied in your paper...While the hybrids may not have been viable by themselves they show that novel developmental changes are not beyond reach of the genome.
However, for evolutionary change, heritability is not simply "important," but absolutely necessary. All kinds of novel ontogenies have been generated by mutagenesis in various model systems. Remarkably few of these novel ontogenies are heritable (where "heritable" means stably transmitted to offspring beyond the F1 generation).

[ 07. February 2003, 14:51: Message edited by: Paul A. Nelson ]

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emma peel
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Icon 1 posted 07. February 2003 18:36      Profile for emma peel     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
IANABiologist, but it strikes me after reading the paper that there are 2 ways to approach the marching band "problem". Nelson & Ross are working in one direction, envisioning changing an embryonic stem cell's expression and/or pointing it in a different "direction", & marvelling at how easy it is to make things go haywire down the road. ("See? If I point Josh a little more to the right during the first few bars of "West Side Story", he'll end up bumping into Joey's tuba during the coda, causing the whole tuba section to fall over like dominoes!" :-)

I see 3 problems with this analogy:

  • Surely cells are more plastic during their development than this? I'm thinking, offhand, of how the brain's structures work to compensate when a person suffers a cognitive defecit from a trauma or disease. Then there's the recent experiment where they switched quail bills with duck bills. Just how brittle are you claiming the development process is?
  • I thought that the cells in a developing embryo were more like a swarm than a marching band. Don't the cells differentiate in response to signals provided by their immediate environment, mostly meaning their immediate neighbors? If your marching band's current show causes the tuba player to start at one goal line & end up at the other, he'll trace out the same path if you tell him to play his part alone on the field as he would when he's part of the performance. But if you isolate an embryonic stem cell that has started to differentiate, it's not going to continue developing on its own exactly like it would have in vivo, is it? (IOW, isn't the developmental pathway somewhat contextual?)
  • I can see how the average change you make to a cell's developmental trajectory would be deleterious to the resulting organism, but it's already well known that a population undergoing selection pressure is a population that's experiencing more premature deaths than one that isn't undergoing pressure. I'm not sure what the marching band problem brings to the table here, except to make the developmental process look more brittle.
But if you work the problem from the other end, the problem seems to disappear altogether: Every time an experimenter subjects a population of animals to selection, creating two distinct populations, you end up with populations that are different in some way. At some point in an individual animals' development, they diverge from that of members of the other population - even if it's just microevolution. And yet population changes due to novel mutations & subsequent selection have happened countless times in the lab & in the wild. Isn't the marching band problem similar to saying "and yet the bumblebee flies"?

[ 07. February 2003, 18:40: Message edited by: emma peel ]

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