|
Author
|
Topic: Eternal Information (No Need for an 'Intelligent 'Designer)
|
skwayred
Member
Member # 2004
|
posted 15. June 2006 09:06
Does the Intelligent Designer need to be sentient and conscious and intelligent?
ID claims that in our universe, something that is complex and specified cannot arise from something that is not intelligent and conscious. Hence, they have to invoke something outside the universe as the Intelligent Designer because it's the most logical deduction they could come up with. Something that is not bound by the universal laws which precisely prevent 'intelligent designs' from arising spontaneously, including of course an intelligent designer (within the universe). But if the IDr is outside the universe and its governing laws, then why can't we just say that the Designer is not intelligent and conscious? What if outside the universe, something which is not conscious and intelligent is capable of design? You cannot invoke the physical laws because, as I've said, they only apply to the physical universe, not outside it.
Hence, why call it Intelligent design if it is possible that outside the laws of physics/science, something unintelligent can create intelligence? What if there's such thing as eternal information outside the Universe and it's just the "just is." It doesn't need to be Intelligent and Sentient.
I hope an IDer could address this.
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
IP: Logged
|
|
susfubb
Member
Member # 2007
|
posted 24. June 2006 21:13
quote:
I hope an IDer could address this
Apparently not, skwayred. :|
Well, I'll comment by adding some questions to your excellent ones anyway:
Can ANYTHING exist "outside" the known universe?
Of what use would intelligence be to an omniscient being?
Exactly what is "consciousness"?
How can we "know" that a bacterium (or a DNA molecule) is not conscious.. or self-conscious?
It's fun to speculate about these things, but to make claims about the nature of what IS or necessarily "must be" out there is pretty disingenuous, IMO.
IP: Logged
|
|
Jules
Member
Member # 181
|
posted 25. June 2006 20:46
skwayred writes:
quote:
What if there's such thing as eternal information outside the Universe and it's just the "just is."
Yeah, that idea was proposed by Plato about 2300 years ago. His problem was then to explain how the "eternal information" (he called it "Forms" or "Ideas") was able to be connected to our physical world. What is the causal factor that makes them interact? He eventually proposed a "Demiurge", a divine being of some kind, that formed the physical world, based on the model of the world of Forms.
I suspect that if you tried to figure out how the "eternal information" is connected to our physical world, you might come out where Plato did. Or maybe you'll succeed where he failed. I say go for it!
IP: Logged
|
|
christopher humphrey
Member
Member # 1377
|
posted 30. June 2006 20:03
Hi Skywayred,
quote:
Eternal universe
By continuum creations and evolution (live cycles)
Wave theory – United nature theory-Theory of everything
Tejman Chaim, Henry Dr.
"That means that our Universe is mercurial, continuum, moving living Eternal formation. Which by evolution start its eternal existence Only “living” creation can form life formations, Which are copies of the main masterpiece . According to the United nature theory- wave theory void does not exist in nature. Evolution provides new formation in the old one which gradually decays. This means that G.Lemaitre was correct with the Big bang theory describing how the new Universe was created. It is also evident from different observations that the world disperses but the world can not be out of nowhere and can not disperse to nothing. And new universe appears inside the old universe or on its remnant.”http://www.grandunifiedtheory.org.il/Third%20Book/Eternal%20universe.htm
---------------
From an earlier post;
The creativity we see forming is the result of a force emanating from the singularity [ Were all things are known and formed ]
This is the universal duality that are separated by the event horizon, the information that exist beyond the event horizon can not be known outside of it.
This duality is what keeps the universe perpetually moving in this creative circular motion around the eternal..
quote:
So I walk on the uplands unbound ,
And know that there is hope
For that which Thou didst mold out of dust
To have consort with things eternal.
--- The dead sea scolls
Information is composed of order; this order collapses around a preexisting possibility of order.
As Pythagoras said “eternal true forms” these eternal true forms exist as inherent inevitabilities…. A singularity……..A basin of attraction.
The driving force of life are dualities, up down, right left, positive negative, past and future.
These dualities create currents between one another to create movement. All these
dualities can be traced to one main duality, temporal time and eternal principles. the universe can only exist with a balance of opposite but complementary poles. These dualities create the movement, cycles and evolution we experience as the temporal observer. The ultimate duality is the eternal and the temporal, without one the other has no contextual existence, therefore the visible universe and man are manifestations brought into existence by the presents of the eternal form or if you prefer god.
quote:
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end" (xxi. 6); "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last" (xxii. 13); and also, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end,
Skywayred,
None of the id’s got it when I originally posted this and I doubt they every will.
[ 30. June 2006, 20:12: Message edited by: christopher humphrey ]
IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic